Tuesday, September 15, 2009

Guest Blogger: Taylor B.

Recently in class we have been talking a lot about the state of nature. Hobbes describes the state of nature as “poor, nasty, brutish and short”. He also says “Where there is no common power, there is no law; where no law, no injustice.” In class we discussed if there is injustice and justice in the state of nature. I think that there is no technical justice or injustice because there really is no one to enforce the laws. I think men have a conscience and they have morals, but who’s to say there’s a right and a wrong if no one has ever been taught the way. Locke is more optimistic in his thoughts with men. He believes that men want to be in a government. He believed that they yearn for the comfort of security. Hobbes, however, believes that men are always close to slipping back into the state of nature. He believes men to be selfish. Hobbes says “Nothing the sovereign do can possible be called injustice.” When people finally get into a government and elect a leader, Hobbes believes that rebellion is in no way justifiable. He says that if the men want to rebel against a leader that they chose, then they are rebelling against themselves. However Socrates said “The wisest men admit when they are wrong.” I think that it is okay to rebel against a leader if they are not following the contract laid out before them. Yes the people elected the person to be their leader, but they may not have seen what he was capable of doing. If a ruler is not following the contract the people can admit they were wrong in choosing a person who likes power, and put another person in his place. In class we talked about how men who want power, shouldn’t have it, but men who don’t necessarily want power should have it because normally they won’t become a tyrant. I find this interesting because for the articles we had to look up I found an article about Saddam Hussein. In the article it talked about his rise to power. He was always using people to get what he wanted. He was always hungry for power. Saddam used false trials to try and get the people to support him. Once they did, he had complete control. When the people of Iraq finally realized what was happening they couldn’t do anything about it. Wrapping all this up, men do not want to live in the state of nature, but when they have a government they need to be careful about who they put in charge and willing to admit when they are wrong.

11 Comments:

At 10:25 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Excellent first post, Taylor! Your discussion on social contracts was text-based with Locke and Hobbes, and branched out to Socrates and Saddam. Well done.

~Mr. Decker

 
At 4:03 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I completely agree with you on the thought that because men that admit they are wrong are wise, it is justifiable to rebel. I also agree that when people realize that they have chosen someone who loves power too much and isn't a good leader they should pick a new leader. You then go on to say that Saddam Hussein was hungry for power throughout his whole rule. Shouldn't the people he controlled have fought back when they realized he wasn't a good leader. You say that he had complete control and that the people couldn't do anything about it. Couldn't they have revolted or done anything possible to get out of it? You agree with Locke throughout your whole post and Locke believes that it is the responsibility of the people to rebel if a government doesn't work for them. Wouldn't it be their responsibility to rebel then?

 
At 9:44 PM, Anonymous BriAnna M. said...

Good job Taylor! i concurr with your thoughts on the state of nature. I especially agree with you on that it is ok to rebel against a leader. Events change and so do minds and if that leader changes his or her mind and makes a not so wise decision that goes against the majority of the people i think they have a right to stand up for what they believe in and what they feel should be done and can rebel against that regime.

 
At 9:52 PM, Blogger bztdlinux said...

I really like how Taylor points out the contradiction in Hobbes's ideas about rebellion and humans. If his argument that humans are selfish and imperfect beings is true, then why does he argue for a permanent and inflexible social contract? Shouldn't we be able fix our mistakes?

One possible rebuttal for this could be that humans are always working for their own gain (except when misled as explained by Rosseau), thus the only time sufficient people are recruited for a rebellion is when they have been misled to believe that they are bettering themselves - if this is true, then any change of government will always be for the worse.

Hi from Thomas D.

 
At 2:50 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I really like how you said men have a conscience and they have morals. For there to be no justice however, i guess really depends on what you count as a government. Some might say family is government, and since they inforce rules they could have justice. So has a state of nature ever truly existed?
Just a thought, but i really liked what you said and how you worded it, good job!

Marina Mossaad

 
At 2:58 PM, Anonymous Aaron "Buehler" said...

Taylor, great job on the post, i really love how you gave a modern day example about this. I have to agree with Millie, the people under Saddams' rule should have rebelled, according to Locke. But the people were so afraid of him that they couldn't, and if they tried they would have been executed. Other than that, all my thoughts have really been said and i would like to leave you with a john locke quote "Where there is no law there is no freedom." Just food for thought about Lockes vision on a state of nature.

 
At 1:08 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

Well I'll make this quick since seventh hour is about to start.
I mostly agree with Taylor's post and all of your comments.

I think the people of Iraq should have rebelled, although I completely understand why they didnt, anybody who tried to start one would be executed immediately by Saddam.

I also think that when a leader is not liked, only the people who didnt vote for him have the right to rebel against him.

-Jake H.

 
At 9:14 AM, Anonymous TAYLOR BLY said...

I agree with you Millie about how the people under Sadam Hussein should have rebelled. However like Aaron said, the people were so afraid of him. Saddam was brilliant by having little groups of people do the bad deeds for him. The citizens didn't know who would turn them in or who was a friend. I think they should have rebelled but at the beginning they didn't quite know what was going on themselves. Saddam acted as if he was a helping hand to the people. He slowly took control and once it was too late the people were too scared for their lives to do anything.
-TAYLOR BLY

 
At 7:56 PM, Anonymous Jordan Jochum said...

Going off what Aaron said about how the people might wanted to rebel but were to afraid, relates to Machiavelli. Maybe Saddam was very in touch with Machiavelli's ideas and new that if he couldn't be loved and feared... just be feared. So Machiavelli's ideas of staying in power still work today.

 
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